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Started by: Ookster Sent: 14/02/2001 20:51 16 Replies
But here goes anyway. How does one incorporate Pagan theory and practise, into a lifestyle where an individual has neither the need nor the desire to procreate? Let me elaborate-I don't want kids. I have never, ever been maternal-I'm 27 now, and all my friends are having sprogs a plenty, but I am unmoved by it. I've accepted this and I'm happy with my decision, I really don't want children. people around me find this quite odd/difficult to deal with, but i have never been more sure on any point in my entire life. Kids bore me rigid, I just don't like them I'm afraid!

However, there is an emphasis in paganism/wicca on the nature/nurture theme...therefore, any thoughts?

Ookster

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From: scott Sent: 14/02/2001 21:31 1 of 16
Oh this is such a simple one! As a poof I too am necer gonna have kids (love em, but can't eat a whole one!). If your talking about the "mother" phase of your life this is simple. To be a mother means so many things. Not just lying on a table, legs spread, screaming the house down for 26 hours, all for 18yrs of sleepless nites! It means to nuture, love, sacrifice, to be there for etc... I do that for my friends! They know that whatever time of day they can call me, cry on my shoulder, look to me for praise and encouragement etc.. In a way I am their mother, brother, sister friend, son! We all things to all people! I hope this makes sense, but I'm rushing cos I'm on my way out. May add more thoughts later
Scott.

From: Dionne Sent: 14/02/2001 22:10 2 of 16
Just wanted to say...

I don't want kids either.....I too, have never been so sure of anything!

I do however want a dog...does that count??!!

From: maldanwillow Sent: 14/02/2001 23:28 3 of 16
Not at all controversial....... good for you in making your decision. Having kids is not the be all and all of stuff. Having had/nurtured 4 sons, the youngest being almost 17yrs old, I am just so relieved that I am coming into my own again - getting in touch with the essence of Marilyn instead of constantly wearing the "mummy" hat. Far too many children come into this word as a result of lust and little thought and sadly we all know how this story goes. We are all responsible for everything around us and I am sure that your nurturing skills/desires will be put to very good elsewhere. I wish you the very best and may you always be guided by the Source. Blessings, Marilyn xx

From: Katrina Sent: 15/02/2001 00:38 4 of 16
Good on you, Ookster! I agree, not controversial at all - just a wise decision. And as Scott says, you can be a "mother- figure" to people and friends without having to give birth. In fact a better one, because you don't have the demands made upon your time by real children. Like Marilyn, Ihave brought up three children, the youngest being 13, and whilst I love them very much, motherhood is not all it's cracked up to be. You lose a huge chunk of yourself - like Marilyn, I'm only just beginning to rediscover myself. I live on an estate surrounded by people who have children because there's nothing better to do. It's so depressing - seeing these neglected kids growing up and repeating the same pattern all over again. Also, if you love Mother Earth, you are not depleting resources further by adding to the huge population! Stick to your principles - you're a wise woman!
Katrina.

From: Akasha Sent: 15/02/2001 11:18 5 of 16
i always wanted lots of kids until i realised how much my sisters kids piss me off!

on top of that i have a small biological problem, my partner doesnt produce sperm. however thats ok cos if she did she wold have a biological problem instead!

so unless i find a man who is as reliable loving and all round wonderful as jen i think im going to have to stick to mothering my friends, animals and plants.

Back to the point then, paganism is not just about procreation (i think thats catholicism, at least i think thats why my aunt had 8 kids) its about attuning with nature, a natural part of what we do is have children, it is just one of the amasing things your body can do, but its not the only thing. paganism celebrates our ability to procreatre, as well as that of other plants and animals. but it is also about knowing yourself and respecting the world around you. if you were to ahve kids cos you thought it was necessary you woulddnt be doing yourself (or the kids) much of a favour. far better to be at peace with yourself and living a happy life than try to conform and making yourself miserable.

lots of love and dirty nappies

kash

From: scott Sent: 15/02/2001 19:47 6 of 16
Yeh! I got more thoughts! Just can't shut me up!

Just been reading Kash's reply. She used an interesting word "procreate". What does that mean? Pro= positive; create= to create (obv.). So to procreate means positive creation. Isn't that what the craft is all about!
Scott

From: White Crow Sent: 15/02/2001 19:48 7 of 16
I have a son, and I'm sorry, but for me being a parent is the best thing.

But it is a destroying thing too. Being a parent means you are totally in charge or bringing up and protecting him is a big responsibility, and at times it is like apprehensive and neurotic about everything - almost like a state of constant terror that something may happen to them. It is not something lightly to go into!

That said, me and my partner are gutted each month when we are failing to concieve our next child!

BB

White Crow

From: Dionne Sent: 15/02/2001 22:23 8 of 16
I completely admire people who've got children...

They must be incredibly selfless....not to mention brave!!
...both of which I'm not...
..see....I got to have a blood test tomorrow & I'm pooping about that!... there'd be no hope if I had children!!

lots 'o' love & brave stuff...

...D...

From: Ookster Sent: 16/02/2001 00:10 9 of 16
You seee, this is why I love being a part of this community..you are all so wise, non-judgemental and supportive. I never felt judged reading your replies! And I was amazed by the replies from parents-such honesty!!! Fan-bloody-tastic:)
A couple of extra points: Scott-u r a babe, I never considered the implications of being Pagan and Gay...d'oh!Dionne, wanting a dog does count-like I said once b4, I get cat broody..oh, so many kittens!!!(I can't have no more-I got 6 and they are taking over my life!) Akasha-your reply was very funny, of course, if your partner did start producing sperm that would indeed be very odd, and I'm sure she'd find it pretty strange too!
A final note- White Crow, good luck with your endeavours...Perhaps a ritual to Sheila-na-gig may be beneficial? There are far too many people on this earth who are parents, yet don't deserve to be. why is it, there are so many people on this earth who would be wonderful parents, and yet by cruel quirks of fate are never given the opportunity?
Sheesh, as a woman I feel guilty sometimes that I have this womb and don't want to use it to create..be nice if we could 'pass it on, huh?'
Ookster:)

From: munkipoo Sent: 16/02/2001 18:18 10 of 16
ok call me wierd here cos i know u already do but

i hate dogs....cos they smell and they slobber all over me when i go near them the stupid things
i dont mind cats cos theye cute and stuff
i want a whole tribe of kids......like about 8 of the little buggers running round hacking up old women and getting stoned
i also want a pet spider and some lizards and a monkey and maybe a snake cos snakes r nice

From: GothsChilde Sent: 16/02/2001 18:27 11 of 16
Well...I think you're gonna BURN, you're gonna burn in HELL *said in a Cartman voice*.............onky kiddin......I'm not sure if I want children either.....and isn't our principle 'an if it harm none do what thou will'...I'mm sure havin sprogs hurts you more than not.......

bb...Dee!

From: madferrit Sent: 17/02/2001 01:30 12 of 16
...this one's purely a matter of personal choice, no-one elses business :-)

Does this seem familiar to anyone? ;-)
http://communities.msn.co.uk/ChameleonReams&naventryid=108

ps: I wrote this last year whilst living through some or other teen tantrum. It *is* tongue-in-cheek (honest!) As the mother of two Kevins & one very lively 8 year old I can't imagine my life without them... however, as any of the mothers on this list will tell you, it is the hardest job in the world & not to be taken on lightly!!

From: Klur Sent: 17/02/2001 15:00 13 of 16
Hi...well im glad i read your post because the thought that not having children was somehow not in tune with my pagan beliefs never entered my head! Im sure that free choice is a large part of Paganism so... Like yourself im 27 and have never had the desire to have my own children. I work with kids so i guess any maternal feelings i have are met through my job. After teaching 30 + children everyday i like the idea of going home to a quiet kid free zone!!! I also have 4 cats and they are my "babies". I think that the mothering instinct can be also like protection of others as previously mentioned. Anyway i read this quote last week : Parents ruin the first half of your life and your children ruin the second half! Make of that what you will! Bless, Moonscriber.

From: White Crow Sent: 17/02/2001 17:12 14 of 16
I think it could be said that being a parent does not make you a good Pagan.

If you are a good parent though, you are good at giving your time to another and protecting something you hold dear and make them a better person.

If you are a good Pagan/Wicca/Christian/person then you try to give more to the world than you take, make it a better place and protect it whatever way you can.

So being a parent isn't the important part, trying to be a good person is...

Love and blessings,

White Crow

From: Sapphire Sent: 17/02/2001 23:24 15 of 16
hey, yeah i agree. my mothering instincts stick with animals. I do one day hope to have children but i cant stand the thought of growing old with annoying teenagers - I mean sometimes i stop and think HOW did my own parents manage with me and my sister. I dont mind babies until theyre abt 2 - but once theyre in terrible twos and pas that... I cringe As i cant stand the thought of losing myself and eternally labelled as "mother" and then finding myself AFTER my kiddies have fled the nest.

LOL at Kash... heheheh youre damn right ur partnerd have a real prob if she produced sperm I also agree because my cousin is under the dreadful fate that she cant concieve children while others have kiddies and treat them with no love, respect and not nuturing them

I agree with u WC abt what u said abt being the parent isnt the important part but being a good person is (even though ive n ot experienced being a parent) I know wot u mean...the good thin' abt this community is everyones so honest

BB
Sapphire

From: madferrit Sent: 19/02/2001 20:22 16 of 16
...being a 'good' parent is not about 'making a better person' - it's about accepting who & what your child is and loving them regardless... encouraging them in whatever they want from their lives - even if it's not what you believe in or embrace and wishing them well in their choice. Their choice...