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Started by: White Crow Sent: 01/02/2001 16:20 23 Replies
Okay ... I'm a bloke and I'm 30.

So you can imagine how much I wince everytime I look through some of the Witch books available in my local bookstore and see those covers which dress it all up as what I like to call 'Generation Hex'. You know the ones ... Beverley Hills 90210 does witchcraft (nope, I don't mean Charmed).

Unfortunately, beyond these covers are sometimes damn good books which are nothing like the covers may seem, To Ride a Silver Broomstick and 21st Century Wicca being good examples.

So is it all a good thing? Are people being encouraged to witchcraft as a fashion accessory, or because someone wants to do spells on their enemies? More importantly are men (already a minority in the craft) being put off it because of it (I'm thinking of covering To Ride a Silver Broomstick in wallpaper).

What's your opinion? Wicca for all, or bitches for witches?

Blessed Be,

White Crow

P.S. Before anyone starts I am not saying witches are bitches uh-kay!

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From: White Crow Sent: 03/02/2001 17:45 9 of 23
I'd like to say I've not launched this discussion as a 'pick on teenage girls' thing!

I was first contacted by Farrah, who'd seen my email address on the Witches Voice as being from Farnborough, back in Oct/Nov last year.

As an ex-teacher, the moment she told me her age, alarm bells rang. However, as I got to know her, I realised she had thought through a lot of Wicca, she was quite sensible, and that yes, Wicca/Paganism was the right choice for her. There may be 30-40 year olds out there just getting started for whom Wicca is not the right choice at all.

Call me a snob, but I dont think anyone who is drawn to the Path through television will last. But someone who is drawn to the Path because there is something in Nature which has touched and moved them so greatly but mysteriously and they want to seek out and explore it, they have that something special.

Pack away your candles, lock away your incense and wands and athames, and just sit down on your own. If without your props you have no spiritual connection, and cannot just breathe and feel the great gift of life, then keep them locked away. The trappings of Wicca, Paganism or even Christianity are just Emporers Clothes if behind them there is not a great movement of spirit and mind.

To some of the Generation Hex minds, the trappings of magic are just some great spiritual credit card to get the things money cannot buy, 'ooh, will Gary ask me out'. If I was to offer you some bread and wine, if you ate it you could not say you'd partaken the Holy Communion, the actions mean nothing without the spirit and intent!

Ooop ... gone too deep again! Soz

Blessed Be,

White Crow

From: Akasha Sent: 03/02/2001 19:09 10 of 23
i see what you are saying hun but i dont think it the thing that attracts you that matters, it is the feeling of coming home, of learning stuff you have always known in your heart that is important.
i first discovered wicca when i met the most wonderful person in the world EVER and fell madly in love, we just clicked, i think its the air of serenity she has. anyway at some point she let it slip she was a white witch, i had no idea what that meant , but i was intrigued, so i bought my first book, and was amazed, it was like the missing link. i am a natural witch and have always had cretain "witchy" skills ( i am quite psycic and perceptive, have strong connections with plants and animals (you should see my cacti!) and i have been able to manipulate energy since i was a child, i could also change traffic lights and stuff ) i had no idea this was witchcraft, i had seen a bit of a documentary but didnt relate it to what i was doing. my mum is the same so iu think its hereditary, unfortunately she is a devout methodist.
what i am trying to say is that there are a lot of undiscovered witches out there, who are probably a bit lost and confused and if all this fashionable witchy stuff points them in the right direction that can only be a good thing, both for them and the craft as a whole, as in the future these teeny-boppers will be wiser and a blessing to us all.
lots of love and mascara
kash

From: White Crow Sent: 03/02/2001 20:59 11 of 23
I get where you're coming from too Akasha.

Unfortunately, having psychic skills, having a mother or a really close friend who is a Witch, or even having wished for something happen and it come to pass ... it all does not mean you are on the Path.

To be on the Path means you have a close relationship with that source of all life which we call the God and Goddess, and that it is there in the good and the bad. Having a partner who feels close to the devine source isn't good enough, true faith is about YOU and GOD(DESS), period! Any religion which is about reaching god through another tends to be a cult.

Me and my partner have been trying unsuccessfully for a child now for 18 months. We have tried every method, read all we could, I have used my science skills to the utmost. I was somewhat desparing as to why we were losing out on this battle. Then I turned from hard scientist to cracked Pagan, and the spiritual dimension helped me. I know now how important a life is, and that it cannot be beconned and planned like a mortgage, it will come when it is right. Each month, I do a dedication ritual to petition the God and Goddess that we be blessed ... this spell hasn't worked, but I have hope that when the time is right it will. [We are seeking medical advice as well]. This month has been particularly hard as I have seen signed of a change of life and a new addition in two Tarot readings!

I am saying this because it is easy to have faith when your spells bring extra cash to pay those bills or love into your life ... its harder when you don't get what you really desire....

Blessed Be

White Crow

From: seabhac Sent: 04/02/2001 12:47 12 of 23
Also perhaps the most important thing to remember when working magic is that you have to be very careful what you ask for. If it's not meant to be, no amount of magic will bring something about. And often you get what you asked for without realising the implications until it's too late.
Blessings of a wet day
Seabhac

From: Akasha Sent: 04/02/2001 14:56 13 of 23
ARRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

im considering not answering any more of your postings or e mails white crow, you obviously just dont get me, and im just digging a bigger hole for myself.

i would have thought by now you would have at least a small understanding of the way i see my faith, and also the way i write, but i dont think you do its so damn frustrating!!

ill have one more try.

i have studied and explored a variety of religions, and never really got what all the fuss was about. before i discovered wicca i spent a long time as an agnostic, not really caring about religeon at all, i just didnt fit in, but i have always been fairly spiritual and if i ever truly worshipped anything, if there was only one thing that made me stop and catch my breath, it is the wonderful complexity of the natural world, that that is all around me and which i am part of, that is one of the reasons i sudy a biomedical science, i dont think i will ever get over the intricasy of everything and coordination that it must have taken to reach this state. this is a very simple version of something that is very hard to put into words, it is easier to say that without really knowing it, my beliefs since childhood were a bit druidic (but tht is really clutching at straws), but without really having any idea about deities, what they might b or if they existed at all. i have always had a sense for the ether and that may be down to living in the middle of wild countryside and feeling the natural energy around me, uninteruppted by the artifical stuff that can be so hard to get away from.the spiritual stuff and meditation, i got originally form studying buddism

. ive explained my deity theories to you before so i at least hope you get that. i first came across this when learning about hinduism, and for a laff throw in a bit of buddism too. so when i found wicca i realised that essentially this was what i already believed.

my partner plays no part in my faith now, she just said one phrase, "i am a white witch" the rest is all me, we dont even discuss our faith and never have. i have very little idea of what she belives or how she practices, it would make things far too complicated, and we dont feel the need and we certainly wouldnt practice together.

and im not trying to say that my mum is a witch or that if she was it had anyaffect on me, shed kill me if i did say that.(shes been trying to make me go to church today, and i only rang her cos i wanted sympathy cos ive got toothache!). in case that is what you thought, im not trying to say im anything special either, cos im not im afraid, in fact at times im incredibly normal and boring!

i feel something, i have beliefs, some are just a part of my personality, the way i was born, some are derived from suff ive learned along the way. what i believe, and the way i physically practice my own religeon just happens to fall very nicely into the pigeon hole labelled wicca (thats metaphorical before you pull me up on that) if the pigeonhole didnt exist i would still believe what i do, but i would probably be pretty lonely not having others with similar beliefs to tell me im not a total freak.
i can speak to people, read books, be in a relationship with someone, but in the end, my greatest influence is the depths of my own mind, my beliefs and practices are as individual as my fingerprints, but whatever happens i will always have faith, because if you cant believe in what is in your heart (or as i prfer to say you subconcious mind), whats the point? you may think im wrong, but frankly i dont give a flying banana, if being right means conforming to someone elses beliefs i think i'll take a raincheck.

hope that clears things up, im pulling my hair out already cant deal with this much longer, if you really feel the need to dissect and analyse my faith i think you better ring me i might make more sense to you in person.
kash

From: Akasha Sent: 04/02/2001 15:07 14 of 23
forgot to mention, the point i was trying to make is that everyone is introduced to the craft by something.
so white crow, if you didnt learn about the craft from another person, a book, the internet or the telly, where the hell did you learn about it?
i doubt very much you just woke up one morning and thought, ah i im a witch, if youd never heard of the concept before
kash

From: White Crow Sent: 04/02/2001 17:58 15 of 23
Just to say that the comment about cults was not specifically directed at you Akasha!

What I was trying to say was that there is a difference between a cult and a true religion ... one seems to cause you to worship an individual person, the other the devine. I am only saying this as I have been under the influence as a teenager of a Christian church which bordered on cult behaviour at times, and it is so easy to do so.

Thats all

White Crow

From: Dionne Sent: 04/02/2001 19:16 16 of 23
Hmmmm...not quite sure if I dare write anything here!

Well...here goes nothing!

Just to make it clear here...I'm not saying anyone is right...or anyone is wrong (I don't think anyone has the right to say that about most people).....but...

Surely being a witch/wiccan/pagan..or whatever is about being yourself...following what feels right for you....respecting & working with the natural world.....whether this incorporates Gods & Goddesses or not...

Many of the first Witches, who followed a traditional path (as I understand) didn't worship Gods or Goddesses...but worked with nature & the cycle of the earth...they did what they felt was right..

Surely this isn't about telling people what or who they should & shouldn't worship...but encouraging them on the path they've chosen to take...& helping them along the way..?...

Anyway...I reckon I'm probably going to get some jip for this..but hey!!

Love & light...

Dionne

From: Akasha Sent: 04/02/2001 20:46 17 of 23
i love you dionne your ace!!
i totally, completely and utterly agree with you.
thanks a lot for making me feel normal again
kash

From: Dionne Sent: 04/02/2001 20:58 18 of 23
Ooooooo-errrrr missus!!
hehehe

From: Akasha Sent: 05/02/2001 09:52 19 of 23
you cheeky monkey you!

From: patsy Sent: 05/02/2001 16:26 20 of 23
dear oh dear kash, you do get worked up for a young girl youll never make it to 21 LOL, ever thought about going into politics?, you lot should get yourselves a few copies of Pagan Dawn, great mag that! surley its not about trying to prove what you are to others but about working together to help, inspire, encourage share. Ithink you are missing the point. Loosenup babeXXXXX

From: White Crow Sent: 05/02/2001 18:30 21 of 23
Oooh ... this discusssion has seemed to gone quite off track, and maybe it would be best to stop it here for now.

It has succeeded though in bringing out what people are very passionate about, which can be no bad thing. In the end we've resolved our differences which shows we ARE passionate but not fanatical, which can be no bad thing!

One thing though, I am not surprised that there is so much disagreement. If you have been a part of any faith you will know that everyones faith is different, and the craft encourages us to be different, so there is a heck of a lot of diversity amongst us.

I see this site has two purposes, the first is to provide fellowship, the second is to provide a forum for us to present our views and beliefs to other like minded, tolerant people. Of course we havent and will not agree on some subjects, and yes we will and should debate and discuss them, but there should always be respect. I will apologise and grovel and metaphorically 'wash the feet' of anyone who feels I have crossed the line and not been respectful - but that was not my intention. [Unfortunately cruelty and humour can appear juxtaposed on the internet]

I personally would like to thank everyone for there contributions (particularly to the later half, where the discussion went a bit darker). This discussion, like so many others on this site has challenged me, and given me a lot to think about regarding my future on the Path and what spirituality means to me. I hope you too have felt similarly challenged and not offended.

Blessing and love,

White Crow

From: Akasha Sent: 06/02/2001 08:53 22 of 23
i really dont feel the need to prove myself to others but im afraid if someone challenges you repeatedly (crow......) in the end you have to rise to it to set them straight. (crow and i have had a lot of email discussion prior to this that you didnt see.)
i was trying to make a point using my own experience as an example, i think this was taken the wrong way and wanted to make myself clear, in case i accidently represented myself in an innacurate manner.
sorry i couldnt be a polititian i am far too emotionally sensitive, i dont think it would go down too well if i felt the need to burst into tears in the middle of a debate, and besides, the day we have an ex porn star as a prime minister, we must start to worry!!!
anyway crow and i are friends now so thats ok
love and light
kash

From: Shollo Sent: 06/02/2001 23:41 23 of 23
Hi, I know that theres a lot thats gone before, but getting back to the principal part here,

I'm not a wiccan, Ive explained this a lot, but i do understand about the books you find these days. I recall walking into waterstones and buying the key of soloman, or various dion fortune stuff, etc. etc. The fact that that seems to be completely impossible now, to use the phrase, is down to 'generation hex'. I dont want to buy the 'teen witch book of spells'. My partner bought me one of them for xmas (for a joke) and frankly i cant begin to explain some of it. Needless to say, impressed i wasnt.

The thing that i ended up by asking myself, was this - Is this the aquarian age then? Ive been hearing about it since time began for me, and you thought it was here all thge time, and now - many of the sentiments expressed by what the aquarian age was thought to be have come to pass. And so we have crap on the bookshelves where we bought our books from.

Or again, is this just a reaction to change? Im sure the golden dawn were disgusted (they were) when things they considered secret, were published, and more so when people got in on the act and started lying about it all. Yes - ultimately its about money, and people will sell any old shit.

and get away with it too it seems. Personally i feel like i wanted a revolution, and then it happened, and now i feel a bit put out, because when it happened no-one asked me how it should have went. And i feel crap about that too.

anyways,

shollo