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Started by: White Crow Sent: 21/01/2001 22:57 15 Replies
Probably all of you by now have heard about the allegations that the parents at the centre of the internet adoption row have been accused by the News of the World of being witches who practise black magic and are preparing to do a spell to harm those who would take their adopted children away! The parents have since denyed this.

Unfortunately, its us true pagans who will loose out on this ... it would be a bad time this week for anyone to 'come out of the broomcupboard'! I myself am bracing myself for my mother to yet again bring this up as an example of how sick and twisted magic is.

What are your opinions on it all!

Blessed Be,

White Crow

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From: Akasha Sent: 22/01/2001 01:36 1 of 15
i wasn just about to do the whole telling the parents thing.
when will the bastards get the message, witches are nice people, and anyone with the strength balance and control to use magic effectivly is not evil and twisted enough to use black magic in other words THERE ARE NO TRUE BLACK WITCHES!! just a couple of fuck ups who couldnt raise sufficient power to empower a peanut!
anyhow, now ive had my rant i have a suggestion. i have a new love interest, im not just bragging, this is going somewhere, he is a reporter for the daily mail-now are you understanding me??
as if this is not enough, i have connections thru work(im a page 3 model) with the sunday people, who are directly in competition with the news of the world, and will do anything to get a chance to throw mud pies.
im not too sure about the people but i know tony would do a straight story, and not twist stuff etc (unlike many other reporters, as i have had the misfortune to discover the hard way) and i think he may be interested in the story, weve heard this womans story, shes not a witch at all, now lets hear from the innocents being slagged off. it could work.
what do you think? will await opinions before taking any action

From: Ranatash Sent: 22/01/2001 02:08 2 of 15
first I would like to say hi everyone and thankyou to Dionne for the invite. HI!!
I first saw it on ITN'S new channel. It's typical of the press to latch onto something and ster up fear in the public just to sell more papers and get people to watch their tc channel, without doing any research on the subject they are talking about. It's going to make it pretty hot for all of us who are out of the closet. I sent an email to Wren at the witches voice where she runs a global news page about all things that effect the pagan comm http://www.witchvox.net/xwrensnest.html I gess she has had quite a few as there are links to 2 other stories up there as well.
Akasha if you can do anything without endangering yourself, your relationship or job there would be 1000's of people who would thank you, we could also get as many people to call the companies and complain as well.I for one would do that.
Bright blessings
Ranatash

From: Shaiya Sent: 22/01/2001 03:06 3 of 15
You know, it's things like this that make me so angry. I believe that if the persons said they were Christians or something they wouldn't have published the story, because people wouldn't buy it. It bothers me that people want to exploit our religion and use it to blame the sickness of this world today. I come across a paragraph that sums up my feelings quite well, and I wanted to share it with you all today. Maybe one day, others that do not follow our beliefs can understand.

"We are not evil. We don't harm or seduce people. We are not dangerous.
We are ordinary people like you. We have families, ,jobs, hopes,
and dreams. We are not a cult. This religion is not a joke.
We are not what you think we are from looking at TV. We are real.
We laugh, we cry. We are serious. We have a sense of humour. You
don't have to be afraid of us. We don't want to convert you.
And please don't try to convert us. Just give us the same right
we give you -- to live in peace. We are much more similar to you than
you think."

Margot Adler "Drawing Down The Moon" Pg.453


*smile*

Take care, everyone.

Love,
-Shaiya

From: Animal Sent: 22/01/2001 09:22 4 of 15
Heard the latest?
http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/top_story.html?in_review_id=353869&in_review_text_id=298375

They are now denying the fact.....

I'm going to e-mail the editor at 12.30 to see what he has to say (the editor of the News of the world that is)
If they have made it up, well, lets just wait and see.....

I am asking if he (or the reporter) know what witchcraft is, and if they have a personal dislike(or words to that effect) of witchcraft.
(it might transpire that they are of a certain faith which objects to us).
I might also inform them of our rede and explain what it means.

If you want me to say anything on your behalf, e-mail me at [email protected] before 12.20 so I can work it into the message.
I won't be sending the e-mail from work, just imagine the headlines the next day...
"Arla Foods Witch cast spells on your milk" or "Arla foods uses Witchcraft to make you buy their milk" etc. etc.
you know the sort of things that they do....

Any and all comments welcome.

Bright Blessings to you all
Chris.

From: Star Sent: 22/01/2001 11:36 5 of 15
Animal, perhaps you could paste up the editors email here and we could get every body to send separate emails, make him realise how many of us are bothered by the handling of this issue. Star xx

From: Animal Sent: 22/01/2001 12:08 6 of 15
this is the e-mail address for the newspaper.
[email protected]

and here is what I'm sending to him.


Dear Sir,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

With reference to your article published on Sunday 21st January 2001 regarding the unfortunate case of the twins Belinda and Kimberley and Mrs Kilshaw apparently reporting she “Was a Witch”, I was wondering if you or the reporter actually examined any of the evidence given by Mrs Kilshaw.

You state that she practised Witchcraft and “learned her witchcraft from black magic tomes that contain a variety of incantations”<o:p></o:p>

Quoting from your paper:<o:p></o:p>

Judith added: “We have all kinds of black magic spells in these books. There is a difference between spells which cause good things to happen, white magic, and which cause harm. This is black magic.”

Do you believe her? I don’t’ and I’ll tell you why.<o:p></o:p>

I know what Witchcraft is about, I know that a Witch wouldn’t harm ANYONE.

Judith was quoted to have said<o:p></o:p>

“I will use the hardest forms of black magic to get my twins back and to get my own back on those people who have ruined our lives, I will never hurt animals but I would hurt other human beings. This could go as far as ruining their lives, political career and business. I don’t care. I’ve only used mild forms of black magic...until now.” <o:p></o:p>

Witches adhere to what is called the “Wiccan Rede”, and in it’s simplest form it states<o:p></o:p>

“An it harm none, do as ye will”<o:p></o:p>

Translating that into today’s language, it states, “If what you are about to do harms nothing living (including yourself) then go and do it”.

She was also reported to use Voodoo Dolls; this has nothing to do with Witchcraft and is a completely different religion. I say different religion; because witchcraft is a religion (and it has been a recognised religion for quite a few years now, sometimes called by the name of Wicca, hence the Wiccan Rede.) that is a loving earth based religion. We don’t cast spells to harm anyone because of another rule we believe called the “Rule of three” or the “Threefold Law” which basically states <o:p></o:p>

“Whatever you do, good or bad, will return to you threefold.”<o:p></o:p>

In this case, If Judith was a Witch (which she now denies); she would expect nothing but trouble and strife (3 times the harm she tried to cause returning to her!).<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

All I ask from yourselves, is to examine what you are told and don’t jump to rash conclusions. Witches have been persecuted too long, and in this day and age, I think enough is enough. We are supposed to be in a state of enlightenment and forward thinking, but with reports like this, it makes me wonder.<o:p></o:p>

Blessed Be<o:p></o:p>

Chris.<o:p></o:p>

From: Animal Sent: 22/01/2001 12:09 7 of 15
BUGGER, forgot to re-format from word again.
Sozz about the funny chars peeps.

BB
Chris

From: Arora Zeut Sent: 22/01/2001 13:17 8 of 15
A lot of you have said things like "witches arn't evil", "we live by the rede" , "we harm none" etc etc....
So I just thought I'd point out that not all witches are wiccan and there ARE some very powerful witches out there, that DO practice black magick!

Also a vodoo doll may not come from withcraft, but it is almost identical to a poppet which has.

anyway, thats my 2 cents...
:)
Laters
Gini

From: Animal Sent: 22/01/2001 14:07 9 of 15
Good point Gini, I've just realised that I have been looking at this with a blinkered view.
There are witches out there that don't adhere to the rede and don't follow witchcraft as a religion, looking at myself and the way I work, I believe I could be one of them...

I have just taken a step back and examined my own religious views, and found them different to what I thought they should be.
Maybe we should all examine ourselves (not that way either) and see what we're missing before we start judging others as "Lacking" in a spiritual/religious department (wow, this is starting to get heavy).

I think, what I'm saying is, I may have been wrong and may have jumped to conclusions about the newspaper report,
Saying that, I still stand by what I wrote to the newspaper and when (if) they reply, I'll post it here.

If you want to flame me (or anything else non physical) feel free to do so..

Blessings always
Chris

From: Dionne Sent: 22/01/2001 14:11 10 of 15
Hiya folks!

All I can say is...I'm stunned...

I've been away all weekend & hadn't heard a thing about this until I've just read it here...So I'm going to go & read about it in a mo..

This sorry affair just goes to show how completely ignorant some people are....no doubt they came out with this story without even attempting to find out anything about witchcraft (obviously not even the basics)..

& I want to say "Good job" to those of you who've sent e-mails to the parties concerned....I truly admire you all...

Righty...I'm going to go & find out more about this parp the papers come out with..

Speak to you all soon...

Dionne

From: White Crow Sent: 22/01/2001 17:54 11 of 15
I'm glad I was not the only one who felt a little upset at this news story.

To be honest, I've not been best pleased about this whole internet babies story from day one regarding the way it has been hyped up by the media.

I was particularly upset yesterday by what I managed to read as it included a statement that she basically used a childs grave as a magic altar. As a parent myself, the very idea of this sickens me ... and it upsets me that such practises will once again in the public mind be linked with witches!

Regarding the actual story, I don't know what to believe ... but what really infuriates me is how the papers and politicians are using it to fuel their own agendas, and misrepresenting witches along the way seems nothing to them.

I myself may one day be looking at adopting ... after yesterday I am worried that by saying I'm a practising witch it may affect my chances no matter how loving and kind I may show myself to be!

Blessed Be,

White Crow

From: Akasha Sent: 23/01/2001 12:44 12 of 15
i just thought id piont out to anyone that wanted to hear it that the most important part of a spell is not the prancing around waving your athame and saying the right words, it is the need and emotion that adds to the energy raised and is what truly empowers your efforts.
this is why an inexperienced person who is desperate to help someone or has a true need can cast a very effective spell with minimum pagentry. sure all of us can hex or bind if the need is great (see toride a silver broomstick chapter "theres no such thing as a white witch") if you or your family are in danger or say if a dangerous criminal needs to be brought to justice. these are really grey areas, they may be causing harm but with good reason, and every witch must respect the fact that there may be consequences for themselves.
however, if a person is using dark magic just for fun, to cause trouble ordeliberatly harming people for their own sadistic pleasure, there is no need, and therefore the casting of such a spell would take a lot of skill and energy. this sort of thing takes a lot of practise ands a lot of dedication. in other words an effective spell of purely malicious intent could only be cast by a very experienced and dedicated craft member. most witches of this calibre, if only through there course of study and self discovery would not want to use this type of magic, there may be exceptions but they are few and far between.
in addition , modern witchcraft is now defined by the principles of belief set outby the american council of witches this states

" a witch seeks to control the forces within him/herselfthat make life possible to live wisely and well, without harm to others and in harmony with nature"

so according to the modern ideas, a person practising only black magic cannot call themselves a witch, so if we want to be pedantic we can say the paper was wrong to use the phrase "black witch" as this by definition is an oxymoron.

phew!!

kash

From: Ranatash Sent: 23/01/2001 16:05 13 of 15
Hi, I just went to the news of the world website to see what they have writern today and got this error message

Problem Report
There was a communication problem.

Message ID
TCP_ERROR

Problem Description
The system was unable to communicate with the server.

Possible Problem Cause

The Web server may be down.
The Web server may be too busy.
The Web server may be experiencing other problems, preventing it from responding to clients.
The communication path may be experiencing problems.

Possible Solution
Try connecting to this server later.

either someone is having a go at them or they are having normal technical problems, but with the timing of this they may try to put it down to witchcraft, so things might get a bit hotter yet.

Lets hope not

BB Ranatash

From: seabhac Sent: 23/01/2001 16:09 14 of 15
Ok, just bear with me on this, I'm going to be devil's advocate here....
Who gave some gang of americans the right to define my spiritual practice? Are they now saying that I can't call myself a witch unless I recognise their "code"? The "Witch Wars" in the US sprung from this kind of attitude, too many leaders trying to claim "Grand High WitchQueen Status" - do we really want to be opressed in this way? Witchcraft, the use of magic to affect change in accordance with one's will, usually using a natural "living" source of energy, is a lot older than any of these new age orders etc which have sprung up in recent years. One who uses witchcraft for negative purposes still can be called a witch, even if we don't recognise that person as a desirable part of our community. I'm not referring specifically to the awful things described in previous posts, but more to the general use of magic for negative purposes. We need to accept that magic and witchcraft have been used for thousands of years for all kinds of purposes, some of them not entirely "good". Please understand that I am NOT endorsing this kind of behaviour as described in the previous posts, merely trying to offer a different viewpoint. When are we defined by our own actions, and when do we let ourselves be defined by the actions of others?
Blessings of a dark day
Seabhac

From: Akasha Sent: 25/01/2001 13:04 15 of 15
whoa easy tiger!

just making a point, there is shit in there i dont like either, im just saying that if they had done any research at all they would have come across this as it is far more accesable than ure average book of shadows.

of course im not saying that these principles are right and what we should all follow, if we wanted that we might as well be christians, would make life a lot easier!

what other people do with their magic is none of my concern, im pretty sure (from my own experience)that should they be doing any wrong they will have to deal with the consequences of their actions. dealing with the press is like debating, you dont tell them the truth or what you truly believe, you tell them a slightly twisted and inaccurate version to make sure you win the argument, it keeps the bastards happy, believe me i know, im dating one of em!!!

and whilke we are on principles of belief, what is all this stuff about sex magic? i guess its horses for courses, but i dont think i could bring myself off while focusing on my sick grandmother, or anything else i might want a spell for. but thats an entirely different argument!!

bb

kash