--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Started by: Ravenchild Sent: 06/02/2001 22:38 33 Replies
I've always considered myself a Hedge Witch though as far as I know I practice the religion of Wicca. I never really considered there to be much difference before but I was talking to a Witch the other day who got very snooty when I described myself as a Hedge Witch. She said I was a Wiccan and should describe myself as such. She didn't really explain what she thought the difference was.

Anybody else got any ideas coz I'm confused.(Doesn't take much!)

Ravenchild

Add reply Delete replies First Previous 1-15 of 33 Next Last

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: freyarainbowtree Sent: 07/02/2001 00:28 1 of 33
Hiya,
Just thought I'd add a few thoughts on the subject. Personally, I'd describe myself as a hedge witch, I practice wicca as a solitary, I worship the Goddess and God as personifications of the female and male aspects of nature, of the universe, of the all.
I think when you look back throughout history, especially the burning times, witches often were forced to practice in secret, often as solitaries as they couldn't risk being seen in groups, and often without the ritual tools that many wiccans use today. So the kitchen knife became the athame, the cooking pot became the cauldron and the broom hid the phallic carvings of the staff.
So in some ways, the modern Hedgewitch, with their less ritual based approach to wicca/witchcraft/magic ( I'm trying not to offend anyone here!) has more in common with the witches of days gone by than some people may think. But having said that, I think we all have a hard enough time dealing with the misconceptions and prejudices of other people without playing the "witchier than thou" games. When it comes down to it, the only person you have to prove yourself to is you, and it's really no one's business but yours what you consider yourself to be.
If you want to call yourself a hedgewitch, or a heffalump, or a cucumber called Fred, well good for you! I think witch is a wonderful word, it conjures up very strong connotations and I think it's a greatly empowering word. You have to be strong, and very comfortable and sure of your beliefs to use it, I reckon. And besides, the Goddess knows who you are.
Brightest Blessings,
Freya

From: Ranatash Sent: 07/02/2001 01:09 2 of 33
Hi Freya
I think that says it all, if only everyone could think the same we wouldn't have Witch Wars.
Especialy at a time of change like now with all this stuff about faith based funding in the USA and I have seen some reports about the possiblity of it coming to us in the UK thanks to the tory's.
Some days i call myself a Wiccan other days a Witch it just depends how i feel, and who I'm talking too, to my mother I call myself a Wiccan as that is more comfortable for her but to my friends I'm Witch, I guess my friends find the word Witch comfortable and my mother finds Wiccan comfortable.
I think its a time to come together not worry about what we call ourselves.
Brightess Blessings
Ranatash

From: Akasha Sent: 07/02/2001 10:59 3 of 33
I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT, IM A CUCUMBER CALLED FRED!
heh heh that was a lot of fun, i think i need help.
seriously though, i totally agree with freya to say that names ar not important, we all practise differently and in a way it is fruitless trying to give it a name.
this is how i see the name debate.
wicca is a bit politically correct, its what we are supposed to put on immigration forms and stuff. the whole point of the word wicca, is that noone outside of the craft recognises the word, and athough it has the same root as the word witch, it doesnt have the same associations. ie. in the mind of a once born: witch= ugly old hag stirs cauldrons, rides broomsticks, turns people into frogs, probably ought to get burned at the stake, wiccan= ....huh?
in a way i think the word wiccan is bit of a cop out, a couple of hundred years ago you would have been burned at the stake for claiming to be a witch, nowadays you just get a bit of stigma you can explain away to the people that matter, yet somehow someone, at some point, felt the need for a new name, in a way i think its a little disrespectful to those that were murdered as a consequence of their faith.
but as i said it doesnt matter, "whats in a name.....would a rose called by any other word not smell as sweet?"
anyhow, i quite like being called a witch, its a bit more fun, and we cant have seriousness alll the time.
kash

From: seabhac Sent: 07/02/2001 11:37 4 of 33
Hi all
To many wiccans and witches, particularly of the older generations, there is a definite difference beween the two. Wicca was generally seen as a term for the type of witchcraft perpetuated by Gerald Gardner and Alex and Maxine Sanders. This is a very structured, scripted form, the essence of which is held within the book of shadows written by Gardner and Doreen Valiente. The main advocates of "Wicca" when described in this way are people like Janet and (the late) Stuart Farrar, who have written a huge amount of books on the subject (which I would heartily recommend to anyone). In this way, Wicca is also generally seen to be a form of witchcraft practiced in a coven environment. Witchcraft has tended to be defined as any form of magic which uses nature and natural resources in its working - herbs, oils, poppets, sympathetic magic. This is as opposed to Shamanic work which works more directly with spirit (though some aspects of witchcraft are shamanic) or Ceremonial Magick which works with beings and entities.
These have been the traditional definitions, however I think they are tending to blur together as the new generation gets more recognition. Whether that is a good or bad thing is another matter.
Blessings of a dark spring day
Seabhac

From: Saffron Sent: 07/02/2001 14:58 5 of 33
This is a very important point, and as Witches Wiccans and Pagans we should be very clear on the differences.

Seabhac has got it about right, the word Wiccan to describe witches originates from Gerald Gardners time and was not in use as a generic word for witchcraft before then.

Doreen Valiente did a lot of reseach on the word 'Wicca' and found it to be an old english word meaning male witch, with Wicche meaning female witch. When Gardner first used the word Wicca, he spelt it Wica, which indicates that he had first heard of the word when it was spoken to him. Valiente concluded that 'Old Dorothy Clutterbuck' had used the word Wicca when initiating Gardner to specifically describe him as a male witch, but he had taken the word to mean Witch or Witchcraft. Gardner (and those other famous witches that Seabhac metions) then went on to use the word Wicca to describe the religious practises of witchcraft.

To put it simply Witchcraft is a vocation, it is an essential part of us. Wicca defines the religion of witchcraft through a set of rituals and magickal practises.

To go back to Ravenchilds orginal post, Witches are not neccesarily Wiccan. You can be a Witch or a Hedge Witch or any other sort of witch without the trappings of Wicca or you can choose to follow the Wiccan path and still be all these types of Witch. So, Ravenchild, if you come accross your snotty witch again - send her over to us and we will straighten her out!

From: seabhac Sent: 07/02/2001 16:16 6 of 33
yay! Well put Saffron, thankyou.
Seabhac

From: dragonflame Sent: 07/02/2001 17:06 7 of 33
damn right
wicca= ceremonial magic in a defined system of rules and etcs.
wiotch= whateva u want it too... :-)
me is witch. tho do use wicca to those that really dont understand and think wicca is romantic ...
lol
elsewise i get 101 lectures about 'why u shouldnt do that kind of thing'...

From: seabhac Sent: 07/02/2001 17:11 8 of 33
dragonflame,
I'm not sure what you're getting at here, would you mind elaborating? What do you perceive as the "romantic" image of wicca?
Seabhac

From: Ebonyriver Sent: 07/02/2001 18:51 9 of 33
So a wiccan is a type of witch but a witch isn't necessarily a wicca? I've heard so many different explainations of the difference betwen them, but why does it matter? Most of us believe that what ever path you choose to follow is valid, therefore whatever name or label you choose to give yourself should be valid too.

Eb xx

From: dragonflame Sent: 08/02/2001 18:27 10 of 33
the romantic image im getting at is the 'willow' style. she is wicca in buffy the vampire slayer..
it is the ill think and chant and things will fly and create lovely special effects thing.. peopl think its great.
when someone found out i was a witch they said oh wicca like willow, can u make this fly across the room then. the view misses the point of what it is to be a witch/ wicca whatever...
that ok?

From: seabhac Sent: 09/02/2001 12:26 11 of 33
Yes I know xactly the type you mean, Dragonflame!!
Thanks
Seabhac

From: Klur Sent: 10/02/2001 02:35 12 of 33
Hi there.. i thought id just put my 2 penith in! I agree with some of what Saffron said. Ive always thought as Wicca as a religion and Witchcraft as a practice and way of life. You can be therefore be both or one or the other. Some Witches are not Wiccan...as some of those you mentioned have told me! Some people regard Wiccan as fluffy! Some people who use the term "Wiccan" do not practise Witchcraft. I think that its a matter of terminology and what you percieve them to mean... whatever you feel comfortable with you should therefore use. For myself i use both terms simply because of what I percieve those two words to mean ! I regard myself as Wiccan because thats my religion and i practise Witchcraft (i regard both ritual and spells a form of prayer because for me it is linked... but of course spells can be regarded to be used for other means!) Doesn't mean that someone else agrees with what i think... i dont really care! Thats why im a solitary practitioner! HOPE THATS AS CLEAR AS MUD!!!! LOL Cya Moonscriber.

From: Klur Sent: 10/02/2001 02:39 13 of 33
i just read that... perceive i meant not percieve! sorry its late!

From: Ebonyriver Sent: 10/02/2001 14:50 14 of 33
I agree with you totally Moonscriber!
But Dragonflame...you said you use the word 'Wicca' when people see it as more romantic, i might have misunderstood you, but it sounds like you're encouraging people to think you can do all that Willow/Craft/Charmed type 'magic' - reinforcing the hollywood-witch image. Is this a god idea?

Eb xx

From: Numenius Sent: 10/02/2001 20:43 15 of 33
I think the point was that the words Wiccan and Witch have very different connotations to those outside of them. For instance, if I was to say to someone at work that I was a Witch, well whilst nothing obvious would be said, I have no doubt whatsoever that I could kiss goodbye to ever being promoted again or getting different post within the organisation I work for! But, as Wicca is presented often as a religion (OK, OK, I know some folks object vehemently to the definition of Wicca as a religion, and will be hopping up and down on their computer stools right now, but lets not get pedantic), and we now live in multi religious societies, then it doesnt cause quite the same knee jerk reaction. People of limited horizons may think your a wierdo, but they don't usualy think your dangerous, whereas thanks to the old images and the ridiculous idea that theres a connection to satanism, then "Witch" is more usualy percieved in a negative light by outsiders.
As for which I am (no pun intended) - well I'm not even sure myself, but I suspect that I'm more Witch than Wiccan. I've certainly met folk who describe themselves as Wiccan, but do not do anything that most of us would would consider as normal witch activities (spells etc), and folks the exact opposite too.
I think its really irrelevant what we call ourselves actually, but the time when ALL of us can freely and openly say we practise Witchcraft is sadly still a long way off (actually, I don't really feel the need anyway - I did'nt used to go around with a "I'm a Christian" T-shirt on either).

From: Klur Sent: 12/02/2001 01:59 16 of 33
Hi Alan...the last part of your message has made me want to respond! I don't think that it would come up in regular conversation ... as no one has ever introdued themselves to me by saying...oh my name is *** and im a buddist/muslim/christian.!!!!! (sounds like something out of an AA meeting). Moonscriber

From: dragonflame Sent: 12/02/2001 17:35 17 of 33
what im trying to damn well say is that i say im wicca as i get a less bad reaction off people i care to inform that im of my beliefs etc etc. then let them into the witch thing gently if they accept it. I DO NOT GO AROUND TELLING EVERYONE LEFT RIGHT AND CENTRE 'I AM WICCAN' and in no way do i try and make what i am more romantic...
some people howeva take it that way.. which means i either correct them or dont depending on who it is... and unfortuneately some people i dont want to know do know so i dont give much for what they think but it is the view they tend top hold that wicca applies to romantic flyaway 'stuff'. i am in no way degbenrating wicca as a practice or term... hell i really dont care what i call my faith or what others do cause it shouldnt matter...
Thank you.....
if i have been taken in any way wrongl;y i apolofise to those concerned... but please we dont know each other and this always ends up with people saying things in one tone that is interpreted offensively or otherwise, or someone cannot understand the message that is being conveyed in a few words... face to face is nice but i really hate when this kind of things happen as im normlly quite easy going...
<sigh>
rant over.. going for cup of tea....

From: scott Sent: 12/02/2001 21:10 18 of 33
Hi there!
Well let me out my view in. Well... I'be always used the terms witch and wicca interchangeably (prob isn't real word) depending who I'm talking to. e.g. If at work or filling in form then wicca, if I want to shock someone then witch. (shocking someone isn't nec. bad thing e.g conv. starter "you can't shock me" "yes I can...I'm a witch" (although it is a cool way to get rid of Jehovahs Witness's aswel, they just can't run fast enough!!!)). To me the terms hedge, dianic, ceromonial, eclectic etc... discribe the tradition you follow.
I really do believe tho that we need to get away from the Christian thing of "what I say is right so your wrong" thinking tho. Whatever we call ourselves, whatever we believe, and however we practise that (as long as its not harming or interfering with anyone else) is cool! And we can all learn from each other.
And there ends the dicourse of Scott

Merry meet and merry part!

From: Dionne Sent: 12/02/2001 21:21 19 of 33
I couldn't agree more Scott!

I also tend to use Witch & Wicca interchangably (??) depending on who I'm talking to...
My parents seem much more comfortable with the word "Wicca"...so if that's how they like it...so be it..
I have no problem with using the word "Witch" with Lee (my blokey)...cos he's fine with that...

As long as you're happy with who you are &, like Scott says, aren't harming anyone or anything...call yourself what you want is what I reckon!

brightest blessings...

...D...

From: Akasha Sent: 13/02/2001 10:42 20 of 33
when i was in halls at uni we used to try all sorts to scare the christians society cos they used to always come and knock on our door to see if we had found jesus (no but if he turns up ill tell him you were looking for him). and always at dinner time when we were trying to eat in peace.

i never thought of elling them i was a witch, instead we found the best way was to pretend to be satanists here are a few examples

just before you answer the door yell "will someone gag the sacraficial virgin, we got company"
"no sorry i cant come to the church service, crusafixes are really bad for my health"
my flatmate used to have a tshirt with satan written inside the born again christian fish, they usually found this suitably offensive!

buyt the buggers still came back, despite the fact that we obviously wernt interested. i managed to end the harrasment eventually by answering the door barndihing a meatcleaver dripping with "blood"

heh heh heh

but remember kids, you must not try this at home, behaviour such as this will result in you burning in HELL!

kash

From: Ebonyriver Sent: 13/02/2001 20:03 21 of 33
sorry dragonflame!! I get you now!

Hey, Scott? Be careful...Jehova Witness don't always run, a JW found out i was a witch at secondary school, and made it her mission to "save my soul from satan". Two years i had her following me around, quoting bits of the bible.....YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!

From: scott Sent: 13/02/2001 20:09 22 of 33
Thanx for the warning!...But I'm gay, ex-mormon, smoking, drinking, practising witch, who wishes to donate blood, and am a nurse. Believe me they RUN!!!! lol

From: seabhac Sent: 14/02/2001 09:52 23 of 33
Jehovah's witnesses.... they came to my house once, and without mentioning goddesses, witchcraft, paganism etc I explained my beliefs to them. They asked me to give a talk at their church.

From: dragonflame Sent: 14/02/2001 17:39 24 of 33
s'alright trying out that sticking up formyself thing and get carried away..
lol
my dad knows a jehova witness who first came tyo his door and dad said talk god and leave.. so invited him for a cup of tea. everytime hes in the area he goes for tea... and doesnt mention his beliefs the one time he did my dad went nuts and dint talk to him for weeks... so nice warm cups of tea...
eccentrics in my family..._0

From: freyarainbowtree Sent: 17/02/2001 11:20 25 of 33
Just wanted to add something about the downside of labelling yourself, so to speak. When my kids creche supervisor asked me the other week whether I was bringing my kids up as Christians, I automatically said, " no, we're pagan" (although they seem quite open minded, I think "witch " would have been too much for them). Anyway, I was given the girls' keyworker files to look at over half-term, and in red ink i saw the words "Niamh's family is pagan and she is being brought up in accordance with their beliefs" written at the end of her keyworker's comment section. Now, I don't know how to take this, maybe she's just written it because my kids are the only pagan kids there, and it's something unusual that she wanted to make a note of. She seemed quite interested and not judgmental when I told her, but I don't quite know what to make of it. Any thoughts anyone?

From: Klur Sent: 17/02/2001 14:13 26 of 33
Hi.. sometimes things like this can be written in files for reasons like, to respect the parents wishes. Although it can be seen as a negative thing. I work with children whos parents dont wish them to join in with religious things at all, like xmas, Eid, Halloween etc. so it is written down as such, as there are a variety of religions and we tend to celebrate them all and equally with the children as it is the ethos of the school. The red ink thing does make it sound like something else though... why dont you just ask? Maybe they have recorded the other childrens religions in their files? I would just say you noticed it and was wondering why the red ink. Bless, Moonscriber.

From: Katrina Sent: 17/02/2001 14:32 27 of 33
I'd be really, really careful what you say to schools, etc about your children. I'm a bit paranoid about people finding out about my beliefs, because I'm a teacher in a Church of England school. People are absolutely HYSTERICAL about witchcraft. One parent withdrew his children because there were "Meg and Mog" books in the library (for those of you without children, these are the most harmless, phonically based early reading books about a witch and her cat). The teachers can als be incredibly narrow minded. We're not allowed to talk about Hallowe'en, and some teachers even frowned on my Harry Potter display!!!! I think to many, witchcraft equates to satanism, and people in authority are still paranoid about children getting lured into satanic paedophile rings. So I would recommend being very cautious about what you say and put on forms about your children - you don't want some over-zealous social worker keeping an eye on you! Atheist is possibly the safest compromise - maybe pagan at a pinch, but never, never witch. It's a real dilemma, and with all the bad press, I can't see it getting any better.
Enjoy half term!
Katrina

From: Ravenchild Sent: 17/02/2001 15:32 28 of 33
Wow!

I've been ill so I haven't checked the message board till now. Thanks everybody! I think I've figured out what she meant (and possibly what I think too).

lol Ravenchild

From: freyarainbowtree Sent: 17/02/2001 19:14 29 of 33
Thanks for your replies, I don't think it's anything to worry about but I'm going to mention it when I next get a chance to speak to the creche supervisor. It just worries me, y'know? Does anyone remember some time in the mid-eighties when a group of parents living in the Orkneys had their kids taken from them in the middle of the night by social workers? I think what happened was they were accused of involving the kids in satanic rituals. I don't know anything else about this, I was only a kid at the time, so I don't know whether these accusations had any truth in them, or what happened to the kids in the end, but I must admit, it worries me. I want to bring my children up as pagans, but I'd rather not breathe a word to them about the Craft until they're 18 if teaching them would mean risking them being snatched from their beds in the dead of night.
I'm getting really paranoid now aren't I? Help!
Bright Blessings,
Freya

From: Katrina Sent: 17/02/2001 19:56 30 of 33
Freya, it was the Orkneys thing I was specifically thinking of when I posted the message above. It was horrendous - I don't remember all the details, but I know the children were dragged off in the middle of the night, from their beds, and allowed no contact with their parents for several months. The case seemed to drag on for ages - over a year, if I remember, and then all was silent - probably a media blanket thing. I do remember reading a big article in the Observor, or similar, about the psychological damage done to the children by uprooting them like that. The parents were painted as "devil-worshippers", and the majority of them were people who'd moved to the Orkneys to start their own community. I imagine they were just a simple pagan community practising witchcraft. The Orkneys have strong Norse traditions, don't they? I don't want to frighten you about your children, because I can think of no better way of bringing up one's children than the pagan way (got to be better than eternal hellfire for sinners, torture on a Crucifix, etc. etc - the stuff I have to teach). I'm sure you can get the principles across to your children without involving them in any rituals that could be misconstrued by others. I just wanted to warn you to be careful what you say to "the authorities". Was it Klur who mentioned multi- faith schools? If you live in a multi-faith/cultural area, and your schools are not church schools, you may find it easier to be honest. Where I live, that's not the case! If your child is still in a creche, then school is obviously some way off. Sorry if I overdid the warning!
BB Katrina

From: Sapphire Sent: 17/02/2001 23:32 31 of 33
Now im damn interested in the orkney thing. First ive ever heard of it - more likely because I was in a cot myself in the 80's......do any of u know if its on a website anywheres or anything ??????

Anyways I like to consider myself as an electic solitary wiccan....... i do pratice the faith of wiccan although i dont consider myself as a witch.. mainly because it freaks others...... not that i care but....

I also agree wiv Scott and Dionne - it doesnt matter what u call the religion AS long as its not harming no one

gawd most of what i say is repetitive - prolly because i get to the site late and evreyones already spoke

BB
Sapphire

From: Animal Sent: 19/02/2001 12:31 32 of 33
Try the following site for some info on the Orkney thing...

http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc44406/smwane/English.htm

Animal

From: scott Sent: 19/02/2001 19:04 33 of 33
Hi there!

As a nurse I wouldn't be too worried about the writing on your kids file. When I come across a patient, esp one from an unusual religion I also write that in red ink so that it is not over looked in the reading. This isn't becoz i wish to discriminate, but to STOP discrimination. A good nurse will consider it just as abusive to wish a JW "Merry Christmas" as it is to force a Jew to eat a pork sandwich. Don't worry it's most probably for the same reason. But do talk to the teacher.